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Fri 15 Feb 13 #1 
kevg
The Grumpinator


Sometimes I line up my tablets for the day and think, **** it I can't be bothered. Not sensible I know but a day won't hurt ?? Then I think about the guys who are diagnosed as Schizo r similar who, with minimal support, do the same every day. Is it any wonder I ask myself that these guys cause trouble or even murder ?? The doctors say " we gave him the drugs", the police say " we can only deal with a problem as it arises".

In the "bad" old days we would commit people to a mental hospital and make sure they took they their drugs. Do we care more for their "individual freedom" or have we stopped caring at all ??

So much easier to say we done all we can, but have we ??




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Fri 15 Feb 13 #2 
JMK
Editor

Interesting debate, where to draw the line between personal freedoms and the "good" of society. 




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Fri 15 Feb 13 #3 
Ajax
Contributor

Just take your pills, Kev. I've gotten to the age where I rattle after breakfast and I just think, suck it up. I'm almost of an age where I can ditch one of them. :D

My seven year old takes medication twice a day. She reminds me if I forget to give them to her.

I've said before that we are saving lives at a frightening rate. The Earth is dying due to overpopulation. Let's just not give anyone any pills at all and see what happens. You can't do it. Humans are too attached to themselves.

I wish I could write a cohesive essay. :/




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Fri 15 Feb 13 #4 
kevg
The Grumpinator

The Earth ain't dying because of overpopulation, whatever gave you that idea ??

It might be dying of starvation but that is different. Oil seed rape has taken over from food crops in so many farms to cash in on the grants available. Still plenty of land available in Australia I'm sure, if you head up into the Blue Mountains and want to live in a cabin.

There is so much more I could say but on me first cup of coffee.




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Fri 15 Feb 13 #5 
Ajax
Contributor

We have no water here. Can't do a lot with this land.




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Sat 16 Feb 13 #6 
sally906
Contributor

Too many catastrophic bush fires in the blue mountains - with the potential to get worse.  Wouldn't build a cabin there!

i always forget to take tablets - only two luckily. Have reminders set up on iPhone, iPad and electronic calander at work.

Just as well not taking my pills will only kill me and I would be unlikely to take out a pile of fellow humans first.

but Kev you make a very good point - I hadn't thought of it like that before.

 




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Mon 18 Feb 13 #7 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

According to the British Crime Survey, almost half of the victims of violent crimes reported that their assailant was drunk at the time of the attack.  17% reported that their assailant was under the influence of illegal drugs. 

Another survey reported that 30% of victims believe that they were attacked because their attacker was under the influence of drink or drugs.  Only 1% believed that they were attacked because the offender had a mental illness.

If you just look at homicide figures then 10% of people convicted of homicide between 1996 and 2005 were known to have mental health problems at the time of the offense.  

My point is that there's a far bigger public perception of people with mental health issues being a danger to others than is the reality. Drink, whilst completely legal, is a far bigger problem in violent crime (no surprise there really) - although it had to be said that substance abuse can also lead to mental health problems.

In general, people with mental health issues are actually far more likely to be victims than perpetrators of crime.

So, should they be locked up? If they're considered, with reasonable grounds, to be a danger to themselves or others then perhaps, yes.  Just because they're suffering from schizophrenia on the off-chance that they may become a danger?  No, I don't think so.  Not unless you're also going to start locking up everyone who likes a drink on a Friday night too.

Is it a problem that people forget to take medication or decide that they don't need it on a particular day?  Yeah.  Is locking them up the solution?  I wouldn't have thought so.




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Mon 18 Feb 13 #8 
Honey Badger
Member

Aye, Aye to the Snake Pit.  Which of us will end up there first?  Will it be better than being killed or toasted in a cabin in the Blue Hills?  I just don't know. I just wouldn't know about being without an abundance of water all around me ruining everything I own.  I thought that the salt water flood would kill the HUGE Tiger slugs we get around here whenever it is above freezing but they are back.  Smaller but back so perhaps the big F**CKERS died but their eggs lived and hatched.  Ugh.  I will save my Slug-horror Story for an even duller night.  I am tired and I came in last AGAIN in the Fact Frenzy!  WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY????  I don't care.




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Mon 18 Feb 13 #9 
kevg
The Grumpinator

Not disputing that drink is a huge problem, however, not what I was aiming at. To say 10% of homicides is because of mental illness means that 10% of homicides could be avoided. Not only homicides though, what about the guys who roam the streets taking out their inner rage on others without actually killing them. Not only do they scare "ordinary" people but isolate themselves even more because of their behaviour. Care in the Community does not work, it is a cop out by the authorities hoping to save money.

If we want to talk about drinking I'm sure we all have stories about nights ruined because of it. Taken by ourselves or others. I don't drink a lot although my doc says I do. My bruv drinks at least twice as much. Haven't had a fist night with him since we were 15 ( yup I won). Drink alone ain't the problem , it's how you handle it.

I'll post more tomorrow, it's a bit late now.




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Mon 18 Feb 13 #10 
Ajax
Contributor

An alcoholic is someone who drinks more than their doctor. In most cases you get a lot of leeway.




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Mon 18 Feb 13 #11 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Nobody said that 10% of homicides are because of mental illness.  10% of homicides are committed by people with mental illness.  It's a big difference.

Why? Well, you could also point out that 15% of murders are committed by people who are left-handed (I've made that figure up, incidentally).  That doesn't mean that those murders were caused by left-handedness or that left-handedness is a cause of violent behaviour.

If you want to get an indication of how many homicides are actually caused by mental illness then you'd be better off looking at the figures for insanity verdicts. I can't find that data at the moment.

Anyhow, quibbling about the figures aside, yes, there will be a proportion of murders (or other violent crimes) which are perpetrated by the mentally ill and which could be avoided if those people were taken into care. I think there's a case for doing that with people with a history of instability and violence. 

Care in the Community doesn't work? I'd broadly agree with you that it's a money-saving exercise that doesn't meet up to its responsibilities. I just think that on the whole it's failing the vulnerable mentally ill rather than exposing the rest of society to danger.




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