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Mon 4 Feb 13 #1 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius


HB posted this in another thread as a follow on from the discussion in the Presidential Election - 2012 thread.

http://blackquillandink.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/margaret-sanger-quotes.pdf

Open this and you can see the remarks that Margaret Sanger made. She was the founder of Planned Parenthood and her remarks, which are all notated as to where they came from. She was clearly a eugenisist. Whatever the policies of Planned Parent hood are today I don't know because I don't care. I do not believe that are the benevolent group they are portrayed to be but I do not have current proof. I URGE YOU TO READ THIS.


I figured I'd move it here rather than going even further off-topic.


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Mon 4 Feb 13 #2 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

First off, thanks for posting the source. It's much appreciated.

Now, having checked out that list of quotes I'm still not completely convinced. The source of the list is the "American Life League" - which I assume is a pro-life group which would have an agenda in demonising Sanger and Planned Parenthood.

Obviously, it doesn't really matter whether they're biased. If the quotes are accurate and not taken out of context they're pretty damning.

One quote in particular caught my eye. That's that "[Slavs, Latin, and Hebrew immigrants are] human weeds ... a deadweight of human waste ... [Blacks, soldiers, and Jews are a] menace to the race." Certainly racist, without question. It caught my eye, though, because of the brackets. Someone's paraphrasing so I figured I'd try and find the original. The source is listed, after all, as Margaret Sanger, April 1933 Birth Control Review, which was easy enough to find.

What worries me is that I can't find any mention in it to human weeds, human waste or any of that. In fact, Sanger isn't even listed as an author (although it doesn't list the editor).

The other quote that's in there from that review ("Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock") is paraphrased but essentially there. It's not written by Sanger though - it's from the article "Eugenic Sterilization: An Urgent Need" by Professor Dr Ernst Rudin.

The same problems are true of the quotes attributed to her in Birth Control Review , April 1932. All of the ones from Birth Control Review, October 1921 are there though.#

It's clear that she believed in the practice of eugenics. I think there's some misrepresentation going on though to make her views, which are unpalatable enough in this day and age, even more unpalatable.

The comment about exterminating the Negro population, by the way, I think can be interpreted in one of two ways. One is that she doesn't want the secret that that is their aim to be found out. The other is that that isn't their aim and she doesn't want start saying that it is. If she'd said she didn't want word to "get out", I'd say she definitely meant the first version. As it is, she said "go out" and that leaves some ambiguity.

It made for interesting reading though and beat watching Beyonce's half-time show so, again, much obliged.


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Mon 4 Feb 13 #3 
Honey Badger
Member

It should shed some light on this woman at least and the Planned Parent hood, too. The Black population decreased from 18% in 1990 to 14% in 2000. Too many abortions are a surefire way to sterilize a woman.


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Mon 4 Feb 13 #4 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Between 1960 and 2011, the proportion of the population of the USA that are white decreased from 85% to 63%. Is that because of abortions too?

Not according to the Pew Research Center, who carried out the research. They put it down to trends in immigration, noting that in the last four decades, the USA has seen the biggest wave of immigration in its history. It has had over 40 million new arrivals and the influx has been dominated by Hispanic and Asian immigrants.

Incidentally, they also have the figure for black Americans as rising from 11% in 1960 to 12% in 2011.

For that matter, the US Census for 1990 (which surely has to be the definitive source) has the black population as 12.1% in 1990 (up from 11.7% in 1980). The US Census for 2000 has the percentage at 12.3%.

So, I think you may have got your figures wrong.


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Mon 4 Feb 13 #5 
Honey Badger
Member

Those numbers are not the ones we hear over here, Obvously the large influx of Hispanics has had an effect upon the breakdown of race but even blacks know that the number of blacks has decreased from 18% to 14% in just ten years and some rather intelligient sounding professors whom I've seen on TV..... NO. I DON'T KNOW THEIR NAMES, are expressing their concerns that if young , meaning, teen blacks continue to use abortion as birth control, there will soon be no black Americans left. It is a topic of serious discussion here.

My figures are ones which have been repeated as true over and over again. I just don't know where the disconnect lies but it is a problem for the blacks.
Your figure for 2011 is even lower than the figure I gave for the census taken in 2000.


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Mon 4 Feb 13 #6 
USS Palladin
Contributor

Hard to reproduce when so many black males make up a substantial portion of the prison population.....

That may account for some of the loss.


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Mon 4 Feb 13 #7 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

They mightn't be the figures you've heard, HB, but they're the correct ones. If you follow the links you'll see that they're from census.gov which is the web site of the US Census Bureau.

It's possible that the figures you've given are for a tranche of the total population. For example, it could be the percentages for the US population under the age of 18 or for the citizens of a particular city. They're not, however, correct percentages for the complete US population - regardless of how many times they've been repeated.

You're right that the figure I gave for 2000 is even lower than the one you gave. However, you were saying that there was a decrease from 18% to 14% when in truth there was an increase in the proportion from 12.1% to 12.3%.

Pall - even if the figures HB is stated were true, it'd be a mistake to categorise them as a loss. All we're looking at is a change in proportions. The underlying figures could still be an increase - just as the figures I've given could be an actual decrease. All it needs for a proportion to go down is for that population to grow at a slower rate than another population. So, if the black population had doubled in the same period as the Hispanic population had tripled, you could see a drop in the proportion of the population that are black - even though there's been a substantial increase.

The actual population in 1990 was 248,709,873. In 2000 it was 281,421,906. 18% (the wrong percentage but for the sake of illustration) of the 1990 figures is 44,767,777. 14% of the 2000 figure is 39,399,066.

So - there would have been an actual loss of over 5 million if the percentages HB had given were correct. As they're not, we can breathe a sigh of relief (unless we find out what the percentages HB was quoting actually refer to).

Of course, even if there had been a drop, it would be a massive leap of faith to ascribe it to some Planned Parenthood conspiracy.


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Mon 4 Feb 13 #8 
sally906
Contributor

Have you stopped to think there may possibly be another reason that birth rates are dropping? Bearing in mind that it is world wide trend as women are no longer expected to give birth every year until they drop dead or hit menopause! Maybe now that birth control is easy to get and cheaper and that statistically African American women are choosing not to have babies until they are ready, or limiting their families. This being a choice thing rather than an evil woman dragging in pregnant black women kicking and screaming into her underground lair and forceable removing their potential offspring.

What a lot of baloney. Never in a million years would you convince me that this forced abortion agenda is happening.

I can't even believe that any sane woman would entertain this fact.

And don't give me the whole subversive conspiracy theory either - sick to death of conspiracies. More and more people are believing the most ludicrous scenarios. Too much Hollywood and not enough grounding in reality!

Bah!


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Mon 4 Feb 13 #9 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Falling birth rates would only affect the racial proportions of a country if they were falling more for one race than for others.

Nothing here suggests that birth rates are dropping, mind you.


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Mon 4 Feb 13 #10 
Honey Badger
Member

sa;lly, with all due respect, I disagree heartily and so do many Am,ercan black. It seems to be a vile operation taking place under our noses. There must be more info available on this. The bottom line is tha Margaret Sanger was a bigot who hated all races but her own and wished the others would decline. It is hateful and abhorrent but it was her view,not mine.

Why can't you face the truth? Hitler did it?

STU, THE BIRTH RATES ARE DROPPING IN THE USA AND IN EUROPE, AREN'T THE?


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Tue 5 Feb 13 #11 
kevg
The Grumpinator

I think USS may be close to the truth, hard to make babies when all the men are in prison.
Abortions as birth control ?? Yup, Russians have been doing it for years but now they've changed their minds.
As sterilisation ?? don't be daft
Soon be no black Americans left ?? Looking at those figures there are still 40 million of the buggers, even if we allow a certain editor to live there is still along way to go.
Why does every story about mass murder end up mentioning Hitler, he wasn't all bad you know !!!!


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Tue 5 Feb 13 #12 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Pall would be close to the truth - if the truth was that the black population were in decline.

It isn't though. It's growing - both as an absolute number and as a portion of the population.


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Tue 5 Feb 13 #13 
USS Palladin
Contributor

I see what you are getting at Doc and I agree, makes perfect sense.
While it is a proportion there are other factors at play too I would suppose
Sociological, demographic and economic trends play a part too.
Whites and blacks both had large families at one time when we were a younger country and more agrarian. Now it is the hispanics that have the large families but I can't say they are more agrarian although I suspect that could be true I think it is more a cultural and religious value than having lots of kids to work the land.
But back to the black population, while it is growing it isn't growing as fast as before or is the rate the same but since the proportion of blacks has declined in relation to other rising majorities than it appears to be in decline? You math/stat guys love this stuff, don't you? :-)

Interesting comment in regards to Hilter Kev, if the legacy of genocide and war mongering could be put aside he did do a good job of pulling Germany out of the Great Depression with some innovative thinking.


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Tue 5 Feb 13 #14 
Honey Badger
Member

I will never please anyone on here so I will just make my choices. 1) Say whatever I want and the world be damned or 2) Try to support my statements and have people rip them apart and I be damned. I don't care anymore. I will just say what the hell pops into my brain and call it my opinion.

Ajax, we are ALL barmy!

STU. I did follow through. I gave you all the references and I am glad I didn't bother to do anymore because it would have been a colossal waste of time. As it is the whole black population issue is skewed by you, Pall and Kev. I throw my arms up and say F*CK IT! I give up!

jmaxg, don't make a reponse to this. Please. I am absolutely at the end of my rope today with trying to get my insurance to pay me for the damages don during the hurricane. I am up to retaining an attorney now. I am not a happy camper now. Unless you can give me the $65.000 I am out just stay far away.


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Tue 5 Feb 13 #15 
Ajax
Contributor

Too many abortions as a cause of sterilisation? Not really, unless they are dodgy backyard jobs, and certainly nowhere near 100% foolproof.


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Tue 5 Feb 13 #16 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

I think you've actually missed the point I was getting at, Pall. No doubt, I confused the issue by pointing out that you can't just look at proportions and then illustrating what HB's figures would have meant if they were correct.

The main point is that HB's figures were wrong. I don't know where they came from but they've either been misrepresented, misreported or just plain invented. I'm not for a moment suggesting that HB did any of that - they could have been wrong when she found them.

So, the main point is that the proportion of black Americans is not in decline - and nor is the total number. Sorry for any confusion.


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Tue 5 Feb 13 #17 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

You did, indeed, follow through with the Margaret Sanger stuff - for which I've thanked you.

I'm sorry you're upset that I looked at it critically rather than accepting it as gospel. There were, however, clear mistakes in the references you gave (attributing other people's words to Sanger, inventing quotes etc.).

If it had been sound then I couldn't have ripped it apart. That's not your fault, you didn't create the references and having read them I can understand why you hold the opinion you do. I just looked a little more closely at it than you did.


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Tue 5 Feb 13 #18 
Ajax
Contributor

And a good thing you did too. I looked at it, crashed my browser, yelled CRAP! and forgot about it.


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Tue 5 Feb 13 #19 
Proofreader
Member

And I must add -- I am sure that not even a tiny speck of Margaret Sanger's racism is any part of the goals of Planned Parenthood. I have volunteered there and have heard women of all races talk about what a blessing that organization is to them.


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Tue 5 Feb 13 #20 
USS Palladin
Contributor

I think Sanger was a product of her times. Racism, while still rampant, was much worse in her era. Sadly it is unfortunate that the conversation has drifted towards an emphasis on her failings rather on the legacy of good that she has left behind. But nothing new there, PP focuses on all aspects of a womans health but for the most part the media seems to emphasize the small role they may play in providing abortions.


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Wed 6 Feb 13 #21 
Honey Badger
Member

You are lucky I have to make supper. I am not wrong about Sanger and planned parent hood. Talk to you later.


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Wed 6 Feb 13 #22 
Honey Badger
Member

I CAN'T TYPE, JUST BARELY, BECAUSE OF A CUT FINGET BUT YOU ARE ALL WRONG. DO A LITTLE RESEARCH YOURSELVES. THE BLACK POPULATION IS IN DECLINE, TOO MANY ABORTIONS MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO CONCIEVE AND MARAGARET SANGER WAS CLEARLY A RACIST. WHY DO YOU FLAIL WILDLY AGAINST THE TRUTH WHEN IT IS REPSENTED TO OU. i WILL NEVER BACK UP ANYTHING AGAIN SINCE WHEN I DID IT IS DISMISSED AS JUNK AND NON VALID. i SAY bs TO ANYONE WHO EXZPECT THE PROOF FRO ME AND CAN'T COUNTER WITH OTHER TRUTHS. i SIMPLY DON'T HAVE TIME AND i AM IN A BAD MOOD ANYWAY. GRRRRRRRRRRRR


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Wed 6 Feb 13 #23 
Honey Badger
Member

SANGER WASN'T A PRODUCT OF HER TIME. MOST PEOPLE IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY DID NOT WANT TO PRACTICE GENOCIDE.


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Wed 6 Feb 13 #24 
Honey Badger
Member

PROOF....CHECK IT OUT...IT SHOULD BE EASY.


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Wed 6 Feb 13 #25 
Honey Badger
Member

yOU ARE WRONG, AJAX. HAVE ENOUGH ABORTIONS AND YOU WILL BE LEFT WITH A MANGLED UTERUS AN DTHE EMBRO WITH HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING A GOOD PLACE TO IMPLANY. tHAT IS AFTER AS FEW AS 3,4 OR 5.




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Wed 6 Feb 13 #26 
USS Palladin
Contributor

Oh jeez, really...such drama.

Don't know whether to admire you for you stubborn persistence about thinking you are right or your stubborn refusal to accept anything else but your own confirmational bias. Of course this is nothing new.

So if I understand you correctly, the Black population in the U.S. is in the decline.
Then look at the following and please explain how these figures go with your hypothesis.

African-American Population

See Table 5 and Table 6 here.

Table 5. Components of Population Change by Race and Hispanic Origin:
2000 to 2009 and Table 6. Resident Population by Sex, Race, and Hispanic-Origin Status:
2000 to 2009


Finally page 2 third paragraph of the FEMA report on demographic changes expected in the U.S. U.S Demographic Shifts

I expect the next thing we hear from you is you don't have the time to read these, but then don't complain when we tend to throw your opinions out the window because they have no basis in fact.

The bottom line as a proportion of the total population the percentage has decreased as immigration has increased into the U.S from other areas has increased. Total number of African Americans is steadily rising and has been since 1790.


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Wed 6 Feb 13 #27 
Ajax
Contributor

I would be happier if the entire population of the world were in decline. We are saving lives at a frightening rate.


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Wed 6 Feb 13 #28 
sally906
Contributor

Those are interesting facts about the changing of the race question. So basically if I have an African American parent and a Hispanic parent I can pick one race or the other. So if I pick Hispanic then the count for African American citizens go down as I have not identified with that race. Feel free to correct me if I have read it wrong.


Makes a lot of sense. If you are comparing the results from the two census' it is like comparing apples and pears almost?


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Wed 6 Feb 13 #29 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Phew. Thank heavens for supper, eh?


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Wed 6 Feb 13 #30 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

There's been plenty of research done here, HB, and most of it counters what you're suggesting.

You're saying that the black population is decline when all official data points to the contrary. Are you saying that the US Census Bureau has it wrong? Are they part of the conspiracy, perhaps?

Anyhow, I know you're not going to accept any rational argument so I'll just thank you for posting the link so I could look at them and make my own opinion. Your opinion, I'm sure, will always be different so we'll agree to disagree.


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Wed 6 Feb 13 #31 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Back in post #10, HB posed a question which I missed (it was added as an edit after I'd already answered). The question was "STU, THE BIRTH RATES ARE DROPPING IN THE USA AND IN EUROPE, AREN'T THE?"

Well, let's see...

I've come to love the US Census Bureau. They're really a fascinating resource and here they've come up trumps again with this table on births, birth rates and fertility from 1980 to 2008.

Both birth and fertility rates for black women have indeed decreased (although not consistently) in the years shown. Then again, the same can be said of birth rates for women of all races so there's no evidence to suggest that it's a decline particular to black women in particular.

Lots of socio-economic factors affect birth rates. Typically, birth rates decrease in times of economic hardship (bottoming out during the Great Depression). Cultural changes have an effect too and the increasing availability of education for women has a tendency to push back the age at which women have their first child. Obviously, that also tends to reduce the number of children a woman will have over the course of their lifetime. Increasing availability of contraception and, yes, abortion, will also have their effects.

With all of these different influences, no significant drop in birth rates specific to the black population and no actual evidence suggesting that black women are suffering a higher rate of problems with conception following multiple abortions, your theory doesn't have much to back it up, I'm afraid.

Of course, just because there's no evidence that the Machiavellian conspiracy is actually effective, that doesn't mean that it's not being attempted. Abortion rates amongst black American women have consistently been 3 or more times greater than amongst white American women over the last 27 years.

Is that evidence of a conspiracy? Well, no, but all the data out there, that's the closest there is that I can see.


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Thu 7 Feb 13 #32 
Honey Badger
Member

This and all of what has been said is just a manipulation of bunk.  I am moving on because I really don't care.  I tried to prove only that Sanger was a bigot, and I believe I did. After that I leave it to you to chew it up and have your jollies messing with the numbers,  I honestly don't give a rats' butt. I have far more important things to worry about than the remarks made by a bitch a century ago.  I am quite sure nobody cares about my desperate problems so I will simply say have fun bashing me.  It is so minor compared to what I have going through and your foolish misleading twists are ridiculous.  Go ahead!  I JUST DONT CARE!  If any sane person reallly cared they can check it our for them selves.  I am not the fact checker.  Have a blast while I try to get my money back to rebuild my home and all that.  Abortions, Sangers and Planned Parentehood be damned.  Let people believe what ever they want!  It is better that way.  LOL  It is just astounding that not a single person cares to believe the truth.  Tsk. Tsk.




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Thu 7 Feb 13 #33 
Honey Badger
Member

Supper was better than Sanger who was bad.  When I am freerer I will look up more statistics, possiblly the dumbest thing in the world to do.  They are so easily manimuplated.  Now, I have a certain self satisfacion knowing that I am correct, It is an instinctive knowlege and I heed it.  It is nearly foolproof in these political times and is a far better thing to follow than mere numbers which are, in fact,, just taken from a book anyway.  Intuition is a gift.  I love it so much!




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Thu 7 Feb 13 #34 
USS Palladin
Contributor

Ah, I see from your last post that you must be the newest member of the Flat Earth Society......




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Thu 7 Feb 13 #35 
USS Palladin
Contributor

Some are seekers of truth and others....just to lazy to even try.

Good luck with your house though, tough to deal with insurance and the government I am sure. 




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Fri 8 Feb 13 #36 
Honey Badger
Member

Go ahead and believe what you will about Sanger.  I called a Planned Parenthood office today amd was told that they only provided birth control and abortions.  Counseling?  No.... we don't.  Mammograms? No.....but we can direct you where to go, and on and on.  I am not the ostrich.

 

Thanks for your wishes of luck. I heard more money was released to NY today so maybe we will be getting paid what we are owed, since we have paid for flood insurance for 27 years.  I am not lazy.




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Fri 8 Feb 13 #37 
USS Palladin
Contributor

Ah HB you care, you really care. You said you were moving on yet you called PP despite your troubles. Kudos madam.




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Fri 8 Feb 13 #38 
jmaxg
Contributor

How about this folks, leave subjects like feminine health to females and doctors.

If a male steps up to comment on this, shoot him.

If a member of the Australian/English/Canadian parliament chooses to speak about this and they are male, refer to the above.

For the US Congress, refer to the above.

I am so sick and tired of hearing that this is a "community" issue.  The statistics don't back that up.  The fact is, it's just a "I hate what you are doing" issue.

Well, ok, let's go there.  With all the "against letting females do what females do" population, where are they when it comes to adoption.  I mean it!

For EVERY KID you save, you take them on.........every single bloody one.

No?  I didn't think so.

Until you can solve the output problem, then just shut the hell up.  You are not helping.




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Fri 8 Feb 13 #39 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Does that mean we have to shoot you now, jmax?

Just wondering because, as you know, I'm British so I don't have a gun or anything.  I just didn't think I'd need one.




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Fri 8 Feb 13 #40 
Ajax
Contributor

But now you really want one.




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Fri 8 Feb 13 #41 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Absolutely.

Well, either that or a puppy.




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Fri 8 Feb 13 #42 
sally906
Contributor

How about an armed puppy?




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Fri 8 Feb 13 #43 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

No thanks.

Call me old fashioned but I'm basically opposed to arming anything that's not toilet trained.




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Fri 8 Feb 13 #44 
Honey Badger
Member

I just think that women should know what options are available to them.  I think freedom of choice is fine but it is difficult to give a baby away.....I couldn't do it.  But there are many, many infertile comples who would be happy to adopt unwanted children.  If a woman wants an abotion the option is there

 

I love a puppy who can destroy upholstered furniture.  Mmmmmm!   i love cleaning thst soggy mess.




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Fri 8 Feb 13 #45 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

I know you rang them up, but according to the Planned Pregnancy website "Family planning clinics, like your local Planned Parenthood health center,have specially trained staff who can talk with you about all of your options

That link above certainly makes the options known.

Is it possible that they mistook your question about "counselling" as one about therapy to help women come to terms with abortion rather than advice about the options available?  It's a shame that they don't offer that form of counselling, mind you (although they do link to an organisation which offers support to women post-abortion so perhaps they just leave that to a dedicated group).

Why would you expect Planned Parenthood to offer mammograms, by the way? 




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Sat 9 Feb 13 #46 
Honey Badger
Member

Many women expect PP to be a sort of a women's health center and they are not.




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Sat 9 Feb 13 #47 
Ajax
Contributor

Strange, because sometimes men are involved in making babies, so I would have thought Sexual Health Clinic before I thought of mammograms. 




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Sat 9 Feb 13 #48 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

If people think Planned Parenthood offer mammograms that's really their problem rather than a fault of Planned Parenthood.

Although, Margaret Sanger did want to rid the world of idiots...




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Sat 9 Feb 13 #49 
USS Palladin
Contributor

Actually it is up to the individual PP to offer mammograms or not. The usually pair up with a community provider or a hospital to do this. Point is they are involved in all aspects of women's health. Some units of the organization are more able to provide better services than others. 

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppaz/free-mammogram-clinic-39903.htm?__utma=1.1529985937.1360418167.1360418167.1360418167.1&__utmb=1.63.10.1360418167&__utmc=1&__utmx=-&__utmz=1.1360418167.1.1.utmcsr=google|utmccn=(organic)|utmcmd=organic|utmctr=(not%20provided)&__utmv=-&__utmk=194745901

 

The above link shows the Arizona chapter providing mammograms. 

 




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Mon 11 Feb 13 #50 
Honey Badger
Member

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!  Look at that!  A one day mobile clinic provided by SUSAN B. KOMEN.  Is Susan B, Komen a part of Planned Parenthood.  I don't think so.  Your post is quite deceptive, Pall.  I know you didn't mean to be so maybe you can change your wording on that?




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Mon 11 Feb 13 #51 
USS Palladin
Contributor

You said they didn't, some of the chapters don't, that is all I am saying. 

Here is another that does. 

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppgnw/

I am sure I could search for others, but that isn't the point, the point is some do provide other health care services besides birth control and abortion. If you weren't so lazy you might be able to do some of this homework yourself. Did you really even call your local PP or are you just making that up? 




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Mon 11 Feb 13 #52 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Am I reading this wrong?

Planned Parenthood Arizona is hosting a free mobile mammography clinic, supported by a grant from the Phoenix Affiliate of Susan G. Komen for the Cure.

They're hosting, Susan G. Komen is picking up the bill.

Does that mean that Planned Parenthood do provide mammogram services?  Well, yes - if not consistently. 

Does whether or not any individual chapter of PP provide mammograms have anything to do with your original comments about them wanting to commit genocide?  No.




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Mon 11 Feb 13 #53 
Honey Badger
Member

That is not a consistent or regular service and  I do not like USSPalladin calling me lazy because he come up with semi-true information about women's services.  Planned Parenthood has an agenda and if mobile units stop by to provide OCCASIONAL sevices for women.

 

GET off you high stinky horse, Pall.  The higher you ride thae harder you fall.   BACK OFF!  Planned Parenthood is an abortion factory. whidh also distributes curthcontrol and counseling on oprions for prenant women.  It ends there.Are they wrong?  I on't know vut that is what they do. I am NOT lazy at all. Don't ever calll me that again.

Susan B Koman pick up the Mammogram bill.




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Mon 11 Feb 13 #54 
USS Palladin
Contributor

Ok HB just go and re examine your post #29. Yes, your local chapter of PP may not supply those  but others do (although I really doubt you ever called), whether they be in house or contracted out, whether they be at full cost or subsidized the point is some of them do and you have been pretty emphatic in your assertion that PP doesn't. 

Once again if the facts don't jive with your particular way of thinking or "intuitive" confirmational bias than we are all wrong and you of course are the correct one. And you call me arrogant??

I think calling you lazy is pretty generous considering your level of scholarship in adding anything to the debate here. I can think of other terms to use but then you would whine and pull your hair and claim we were being unfair, etc, etc, etc, etc. 

Yet there is one thing I have to ask. You have stated any numerous times that you don't care, in fact I assume your new in game name is a reflection of that philosophy. So you really shouldn't care if we call you lazy or anything else because you are the Honey Badger, right? Nothing we say should bother you and you shouldn't really take offense because of your stated stand on "not caring". If this is the case do we have carte blanche with you then? Because you can't really have it both ways now can you, state that you don't care yet expect us to respect your opinion when you won't do the work and won't even give us the respect of a decent and thought filled answer to any of our queries. This intuitive, instinctive approach may work for you but I think you may want to check your surroundings, you might be in the wrong millenium, the Dark Ages were  a long, long time ago. Psst.....we have Google now.....try using it. :-)




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Tue 12 Feb 13 #55 
Honey Badger
Member

I guess you care too much about trying to humiliating me or something.  I really don't care whether you believe I called or not.  The fact is that I did and the other fact if that your "once in a while" mammogram mobile is! not even run by Planned Parenthood.  Now, to be perfectly clear whith you, I don't care because most people don't know what the truth really is.  People like to believe what pleases them.  That is true and you know it!  LOL  Pall, I never disliked you but you obviously dislike me very much so all I have to say to that is that, I wish it weren't so, but since it is I DON'T CARE!  Pssst!  I know about Google and use it but I am not at anyone's beck and call any more.  Bye Bye!




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Tue 12 Feb 13 #56 
Honey Badger
Member

There were references on my post.  People can look them up if they want to.  I know they are true.  As for the rest of you who don't accept these refernces as true.I have to advice YOU to check them out.  As for me, I have known about Margaret Sanger since I was in High School. Where were the rest of you? Don't answer.  I don't care.  I am going to sleep.

 




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Tue 12 Feb 13 #57 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Well then, if you heard about it in High School then it must be true. 




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Tue 12 Feb 13 #58 
Honey Badger
Member

Yes, as it turns out it was and is.

 




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Mon 18 Feb 13 #59 
jmaxg
Contributor

HB, have you ever noticed what you do?  You just say something and then you run away.

Other people do that.  Fox News does that.  Sean Hannity does that all the time.

Can you ever say something and stand by to back it up?

Anything really......just one thing?

Look, whatever...........the point of this site is facts.  Most of us get that.  Obviously, you dont.




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Mon 18 Feb 13 #60 
Ajax
Contributor

We call that type of communication "suicide bombing."




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Fri 1 Mar 13 #61 
Honey Badger
Member

I provided sources for Sanger's attitudes, which were good, and you reject them because you don't like them?   Is that fair?  Of course not.  You have to accept the truth about things.  Sanger was a racist eugenisist.  She was a bigot through and through.   Anyone who wants to can look at any of the books listed as a source.  Maybe you people should look them up yourselves and see that I am right on this one.  If I am at least say I am.




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Fri 1 Mar 13 #62 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

You gave sources. They weren't good, I'm afraid. I pointed out why earlier.




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Sat 2 Mar 13 #63 
Honey Badger
Member

Why do you fight that she was racist?  She was and why do you dismiss my sources as "not good"?  I think you are biased, Stu. Hey!  I am taking up a liberal cause here!  You should be happy!




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Sun 3 Mar 13 #64 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Well, y'see, you started off with some wild conspiracy theory about her being out to commit genocide.  Sure, there have been people who've been genocidal but the idea of attempting it through sterilization by virtue of excessive abortion is plainly ludicrous.

From then on it was a case of taking it all with a pinch of salt really.

I've checked it out for myself and she was, as you stated, in favour of eugenics. Not on a racial basis but in order to weed out the mentally unfit.  Now, personally, I find that distasteful so it's not as if I'd be putting up Sanger posters on my wall or declaring tomorrow a national holiday in her name.  

However, I can't see any evidence that she was racist. The sources you quoted are just plain wrong and, as I've mentioned before, I've explained why in the other thread.

That doesn't mean she mightn't have been - just that nothing you've shown me convinces me that you're right (and the genocide conspiracy remains laughable).




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Sun 3 Mar 13 #65 
Ajax
Contributor

 

I don't believe much of what I read on the internet unless it is highly referenced. Also HB, you really should be careful in a public forum with regards libel. If Sanger's family were to read some of the stuff on here someone might end up in deep doodoo.




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Mon 4 Mar 13 #66 
Honey Badger
Member

I doubt that Sanger's family would mind much, Ajax, but I appreciate the warning.  Some references to Sanger's feelings are on Wiki, which I also despise, but while she was for weeding out the mentally defective, her words, not mine, actually Stu's words, she named a number of undesirable races and nationalities in her schemes.  These are not internet sources so dismiss them if it helps but it isn't the case, though you can close that case if you so wish.




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Mon 4 Mar 13 #67 
Honey Badger
Member

I just went back to the sources which I had put up, though I do not know how to put a link up easily the way you guys do.  I must assume that there is no possible way any of you read what is obviously the last page of references of Sanger's quotes. The very last line says that a number of races and nationalities, and certain religions, occupations are "scourges" (my word) and the very last thing Margaret Sanger suggests is that a mother should feel free to kill her own child.  Honestly...DID YOU READ THAT?  Do you agree and think it was junk off the internet?  It was from MSanger's own book. Do you still think she was playing will a full deck?  Come on.  Tell me what you think.  I will even give a trusted person my password so they can put that link up.




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Mon 4 Mar 13 #68 
Ajax
Contributor

 

Does she have a book? I would be interested in reading that.




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Mon 4 Mar 13 #69 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

She had several. 

The Pivot of Civilisation
Women and the New Race
Motherhood in Bondage

I'm not sure whether HB was refering to any of the above or another I haven't listed (I don't claim that it's an exhaustive list). 

As HB hasn't included any of Sanger's own words and chosen "scourge" instead, I'd need to read through all three of those and guess what has her so incensed.

The comment about feeling free to kill her own child was from Women and the New Race. The quote given in the link posted by HB was:

"[Our objective is] unlimited sexual gratification without the burden
of unwanted children ... [Women must have the right] to live ... to love... to be lazy ... to be an unmarried mother ... to create ... to destroy... The marriage bed is the most degenerative influence in the social order... The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."

The actual quote from the book itself is:

The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it. The same factors which create the terrible infant mortality rate, and which swell the death rate of children between the ages of one and five, operate even more extensively to lower the health rate of the surviving members. Moreover, the overcrowded homes of large families reared in poverty further contribute to this condition. Lack of medical attention is still another factor, so that the child who must struggle for health in competition with other members of a closely packed family has still great difficulties to meet after its poor constitution and malnutrition have been accounted for.

The stuff about "unlimited sexual gratification"? A woman's rights?  The degenerative influence of the marriage bed?  None of that's in there.  Why not? Probably because they were words written by other contributors to The Woman Rebel - not words of Sanger herself.

And that's why I'm saying that the sources aren't good.  They misquote things that Sanger did write and misattribute things which other people wrote to her.

 




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Mon 4 Mar 13 #70 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

I've just shifted a truckload of comments from The Sandy Hook Tragedy thread to here as they weren't relevant there (but are here).

If I've introduced any non sequiturs then I apologise. Also, to anyone who referenced a post by its number on here, sorry - I've just screwed that up.




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Mon 4 Mar 13 #71 
Honey Badger
Member

If you click on the very first blue link look at what appears as the third page.  It is there that the groups Margaret Sanger would like to see vanish.  Those particular words are attributed to Sanger. She IS offensive so if anyone has a thin skin remember I am not sharing her words.  Okay, now you know where to see the races, nationalities, religions MS found expendable.

What is remarkable to me while reading her stuff is that these early feminists were such incredible free spirits. They make modern women pale by comparison.




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Mon 4 Mar 13 #72 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

You mean the bit which says:

"[Slavs, Latin, and Hebrew immigrants are] human weeds ... a
deadweight of human waste ... [Blacks, soldiers, and Jews are a] menace to the race."

Right?

 I've already commented on that.  It's the second post in here.  You must have missed it.  Here it comes again:

Certainly racist, without question. It caught my eye, though, because of the brackets. Someone's paraphrasing so I figured I'd try and find the original. The source is listed, after all, as Margaret Sanger, April 1933 Birth Control Review, which was easy enough to find.

What worries me is that I can't find any mention in it to human weeds, human waste or any of that. In fact, Sanger isn't even listed as an author (although it doesn't list the editor).

So, it's another example where a quote has been manipulated and misappropriated. 

The original documents that your linked page refers to are pretty easy to find.  You can check up on what was actually written very easily.  If you do then you generally find that there's something fishy going on.

Now, again, I'm not saying that she mightn't have been racist. However, I've not seen evidence of it yet and the evidence you've shown so far, whilst looking reasonable to the casual glance, is a frame-up.




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Tue 5 Mar 13 #73 
Honey Badger
Member

Methinks I have a special standard being applied to me.   You can figure it anyway you wish, Stu.  I will read it for what she or one of her contributors said and which is printed in black and white and ascribed to her or her publications.  Killing a child?  Please.  How can you even be taken seriously if you think there is anything right about that and I am not speaking against abortions.  I am referring to  actually killing a living child.

There has been nothing manipulated in what I provided you with and you know it.




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Tue 5 Mar 13 #74 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

Check for yourself. I've provided you with all the links.

Killing a child? You might not have been speaking against abortions but Sanger was speaking for them when she referred to killing a child. Again - the links are there if you want to read it in context in it's original form.

If you'd prefer to ignore them and stick with second hand misrepresentations then there's nothing much more to say.


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Wed 6 Mar 13 #75 
Honey Badger
Member

No she wasn't. Th author of that bit was saying to kill a child!  To be free of kids and the burden.  I think it would be best to close this unless someone else has something to say.  I do know how to read. I have checked and checked amd checked again.  I am finished checking.  Abortion is one thing; killing a live child is altogether a different thing.




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Wed 6 Mar 13 #76 
Doctor Factenstein
Evil Genius

If you've checked and checked and checked then perhaps you can point out to me where Sanger actually said that Slavs etc are human weeds?

Whether she advocated euthanisia for infants in large families or not, your whole point was that she was a bigot, hell-bent on genocide against the black American population.  That opinion is based on two things.  The first thing is a bunch of false quotes.  The second thing is your "instinctive knowledge" about a woman you never met.

I'm not saying that Sanger was a saint. I disagree with her comments about large families and I can't abide the woman's attitudes to eugenics. I just can't see any evidence of the racist conspiracy.




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Wed 6 Mar 13 #77 
Honey Badger
Member

Disagree.  I am completely wrong about everything.  Always.




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Thu 7 Mar 13 #78 
Ajax
Contributor

 

I attempted to read some of her stuff. I'm afraid I fell into a coma before I got to anything exciting. Nothing inflammatory in the first paragraph. Who knows what is in there after that?




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Thu 7 Mar 13 #79 
Honey Badger
Member

Count me out, Ajax. I am no longer going to try to convince anyone of anything.  Not even you!




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