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Fri 21 Dec 12 #1 

Was re-watching "Cosmos" by Carl Sagan a little while ago and I revisited his episode, "The Backbone of the Night".

Sagan's illumination of the ancient Greek Ionians was, and is, a revelation....

Thales - The one that first tried to explain the world by virtue of natural phenomena........ever......nobody before him, everybody after him.

Anaximander - Who tried to explain celestial bodies but failed.......that came with Johannes Kepler almost 1,500 years later. But who also explained we all came from an earlier, simpler form. This statement predated Charles Darwin by almost 2,000 years.

Heraclitus - Who predicted that nothing can be the same from moment to moment and therefore, some say, predated Quantum Theory.

Eratosthenes - Who correctly deduced the circumference of the Earth 1,500 years before Columbus did anything at all....let alone having any idea if the Earth was flat or not. The point is, Eratosthenes proved that it was round, and how big it is, 1,500 years earlier.

So why didn't we know this instead of waiting a thousand years?

They are known as the "Pythagoreans" and they were the "Illumninati" of their time.

Pythagoreans thought that the math, the geometry, anything perfect should be kept AWAY from the masses and that is what they did......even to the point of secretive (and possibly weird) lodge like ceremonies.

One famous Pythagorean was a Greek philosopher called Plato.

It is thought that Plato accepted the reality of life in Greece, therefore he accepted the inevitability of slavery. But it also could be argued that Plato would seek to lessen their (the slaves) life's burden with a new way of thinking. Reality is just a path to the esoteric. The pain you feel now is just a mask relative to the "real" truth.....whatever that may be.

Plato's philosophy was later adopted by the Catholic Church and exploited using the very same principal.

And the "Dark Ages" set in for 1,000 years.

Arguments please?

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Fri 21 Dec 12 #2 
The Grumpinator

Dunno, what am I supposed to be arguing about ??

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Sat 22 Dec 12 #3 

I'm sure u will find something even if u have to make it up!

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Sat 22 Dec 12 #4 

This is a very Eurocentric view. That is my argument.

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Mon 24 Dec 12 #5 

Plato's theories relative to reality and that we should think above the real, and think that our actual lot-in-life was merely a step to the real truth became a basis to subsequent societies.

It made sense.

For most people, life was pretty awful. So to think that a higher "something" would happen after this life, was a pretty attractive idea.......especially when you consider that most people were NOT the elite.

I actually think that Plato was trying to do the right thing relative to the misery around him. I mean, a person who immolates them self can concentrate on the searing pain and experience the shittiest final minute and a half of all time. Or they can attempt to meditate and get through it. We now know it's possible to do that.

So Plato had a point. I just think it would have horrified Plato to see where the human experience took it.

Subsequent societies took on Plato's philosophies as it complied with the acceptance of deities and provided the perfect platform to separate the reality from the perceived upper level perfection of gods and provided a way to aspire to be gods.

And so, during the coming together of Judean religion and the complexity of a multi-theist Roman way of life, it made sense that one guy called Saul of Tarsis would conjecture......

"What if I came up with a guy that wasn't quite as severe? And didn't require that we had to cut our tallywhackers?"

(a chief grumble between Saul of Tarsis, later to be known as the Apostle Paul, and the Apostle Peter and James)

So, we go from "life is pain. So think above that" to "the higher life is identified and someone is waiting for you" (which it could have been before) to "the Lord, Jesus Christ is waiting for you".

To me, given the Plato function, everything else just falls into place. Years and years and years of nothing more than not believing in reality and going for something higher, in the truest tradition of Plato.

I'm not sure what to say at this point.......apart from the sadness of it all.

Thousands of years lost to pointless conjecture.

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Thu 3 Jan 13 #6 

Ok.....I'll say it again.

We have lost thousands of years to pointless Plato conjecture as explained above.

You have no problem with the coming of the Dark Ages?

Good question. Was the "Dark Ages" necessary?

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