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Wed 14 Nov 12 #1 
jmaxg
Contributor


With the election, I think it's pertinent that this subject be revisited.

The United States Leader of the House of Congressional Representatives, John Boehner, stated the following in a prominent interview as a result of President Obama's reelection:

"The Affordable Care Act is now law"

Ok, so what does that mean?

From my perspective, I still don't know. The relationship between my wife and myself, with her being a preeminent person and me being a somewhat mildly successful subcontractor is still not known.

But that is not the purpose of this forum. THIS is the purpose of this forum.......

According to the "Affordable Care Act ", with effect the 1st of January, 2014, if you are a subscribing state to that agreement, and mental arithmetic means you are insane if you are not, then, assuming your state has signed on, the following thing will happen.....

With every...

Bag-lady
Hobo
Destitute
Person of no fixed abode
All of the above

...they are now COVERED with effect that date.

Once examined, whatever treatment is required will be provided. The best doctors and systems will be applied, no matter what the condition or the cost.

With effect that point, "the least of my brothers" philosophy will be partially fulfilled.

In a little over a year's time, a huge reason to beat the United States up will be simply wiped away.

Anyone earning less than $14,000 per year will be automatically covered by a medical scheme if they live in a participating state.

My point is, it's not as good as those great places like Australia and England and France.

But a "bag-lady", for the first time in the history of the United States, will now be covered by health legislation.

My tears are not for the bag-lady. My tears of pride are all about how one day we decided that these people are worth saving.

I know it seems emotional but so what.

Now, the US is forced to look after them, it's a start.


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Wed 14 Nov 12 #2 
southshoregirl

Nobody could ever be denied medical care, ever, and emergency rooms had to treat everyone. Tha's fact one. Now I am really happy that every one has health care, except for the new 30,000 who don't, lol, but here is the problem: The Affordable Health Act is a malignant glioma which tries to control every aspect of our lives. It is not a good thing for the federal government to be controlling us this way. If they can't get a budget for the past 4 years how the hell are the going to micromanage Aunt Fannie's lumbago?


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Thu 15 Nov 12 #3 
kevg
The Grumpinator

Aunt Fannie will be OK so long as the hospital look after her and not the government. God help her if O'Bama rolls into the operating theatre.
Don't know about people being denied care but I do know that many haven't gone to the doctor and have put up with the pain (or worse) simply because they can't afford to pay.
It's law, now make it work.


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Thu 15 Nov 12 #4 
soupy
Member

for once I agree with Kev and actually before it became a law hospitals could not deny care because of the patients inability to pay.


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Thu 15 Nov 12 #5 
southshoregirl

soupy, that's exacrty what I said. I don' think it will improve the lot of most people. Thanks for verifyinging, as a hospital worker, that care could never be denied even before Obamacare. They will ry to save money by denying care to people who are a bit older and they do have their silly death panel, no matter what people say. If you are very old or very ill, you will not be getting good care. I don't think that is fair to the people who have worked all their lives and paid into Medicare and then have it cut and taxed while increasing benefits to not only the 30,000 but many tens of thousand of illegal immigrants who sap the medicaid system. Medicaid give them everything, doesn't it, soupy? You tell us when you are back on. A doctor's prescription will give them a bottle of free aspirin or a box of Band Aids. That is just wrong. Those things cost plenty in the long run. They want things like Viagra, too! Is that really health care? I don't know.


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Thu 15 Nov 12 #6 
southshoregirl

By the way, did you know that all Muslims are exempt from being in Obamacare? I would like to know why.


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Thu 15 Nov 12 #7 
kevg
The Grumpinator

Hadn't heard about Muslims being exempt so I checked it out. Merely a rumour it seems. A twisting of facts to say Muslims aren't allowed to buy insurance because it is gambling !!
Sorry Barb, it's nonsense, the Bill applies to everyone.


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Thu 15 Nov 12 #8 
jackson
Contributor

well i'm poor enough to be on Medicaid & can tell you that they don't go by a Dr's prescription. they have a list of things they'll cover & if it ain't on that list, tough. most anything you'd get otc they ain't payin for. they damn sure ain't gonna buy nobody Viagra or anything of the sort. here in WA state there are 3 or 4 health care providers for the medicaid program. curiously they have different lists of things they cover, so if you shop them you'll find one may be better than the other at covering items particular to you. an example would be that most cover the new pens & disposable needle system for insulin, while some will cover only vials & syringes. no one would choose to be poor enough or in the situation to qualify for medicaid except possibly the illegal immigrant.


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Thu 15 Nov 12 #9 
southshoregirl

Where did you find that out, Kev? The Huffington Post?

That is a new thing, jackson or else it is applicable here in NY. It definitely is how it works here. The Viagra business gets referred to a higher level. That is what I KNOW because my son worked in a clinic which served almost exclusively Salvadoran refugees. They got the royal treatment. You should be getting parity with any non-citizen for certain.

Regarding the availabity of quaility health care The most northerly territories of Canada get good care because, according to a fellow vacationer from one I met in Costa Rica, ALL provinces and territories get the same number of specialist visits alloted to them. If this is incorrect, please tell me, Canadians!


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Thu 15 Nov 12 #10 
Ajax
Contributor

Ssg, you mean the Amish.


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Thu 15 Nov 12 #11 
kevg
The Grumpinator

Huffington Post ?? That Liberal toilet paper ?? Nope, you know I don't look at stuff like that SSG. I googled several sites and used a bit of common sense. As Ajax says Amish are also supposed to be exempted. It's rubbish and a bit of Muslim baiting along with people trying to discredit the system. Insurance is gambling ?? You'll be telling me next that it is against their religion to charge interest on a loan !! Oops, it is, I wonder how many of them take any notice of that !!
Nonsense perpetrated by the far right I'm afraid.


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Thu 15 Nov 12 #12 
southshoregirl

Ajax, I am sure the Amish are exempted.


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Thu 15 Nov 12 #13 
jackson
Contributor

medicaid varies from state to state. i know a little about it in this state. unless you're willing to pistol-whip a pharmacist you ain't gettin no viagra here with medicaid. it may be different with immigrants, but as for real Americans over 60, you're either rich or nobody gives a shit about you period in this country. & that includes medicaid, all other similar agencies & the whole medical community not to mention the majority of the country.


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Fri 16 Nov 12 #14 
jmaxg
Contributor

Wow! A great response everybody!

Exemptions? There are none. There may be some that don't comply. But that is a different issue.

I'll try to state this simply so EVERYONE gets it, so here I go....

The Affordable Care Act does not distinguish between Christians, Muslims, Amish, Atheists or anyone else for that matter. To do so would be an automatic conflict with the US Constitution for a start. But as the US Supreme Court has already rubber-stamped the act as constitutional, I think we can rule that out.

IF any demographic chooses to NOT partake in the services offered, that is because they have made a choice to not partake. That is NOT the Affordable Care Act, that is them and whatever their reasons are.

It is DECEIVING to state that any demographic whatsoever is excluded under the Affordable Care Act and to state that is either intentionally misleading or delusional.

Righto, now another thing....

Hospitals in this country are not like other countries....well, sort of. They have the same purpose, of course, but not the same status in a commercial way.

In Australia, New Zealand, England and Canada, we have what are known as "public hospitals". These are government owned and regulated hospitals that are totally supported financially by public funds. In each of those countries though, there are what's known as "private hospitals". Those hospitals are corporate entities that exist as a result of private medical insurance that some citizens use that offer services over and above that offered by the national health scheme offered by their respective countries. Yes, some people seem to want to pay out exorbitant fees just so they can have a nice room with an ensuite, their own DVD player and a wide screen TV just to get their hemorrhoids pushed back in or their turkey neck stretched.

Now.....American hospitals are mostly private. Some states may have public hospitals, but I don't know which ones they are. Michigan is not one of them.

Okie.....now, it's true there is a law of the land apparently applicable in all states. ALL hospitals MUST have an Emergency Wing and that wing MUST accept ALL patients that come in and treat them, regardless of their medical insurance disposition. Ok, so that's cool, you get treatment, right?

(like Mitt Romney said during the presidential campaign......rock into Emergency and you'll be covered, right?)

Wrong. You will be treated, initially, in a "triage - stabilisation" kind of way. Then you will be advised of your problem, and released. In some cases, if your are not conscious, you will be placed in a taxi with orders to be driven away from there to someplace else.....that is a matter of video record.

Oh, and if you actually showed up with a problem, filled in a form and gave an address? You will be BILLED!!!!! That bill will be commensurate will the full expenditure that the hospital just used on you. That bill will be thousands of dollars, probably more like tens of thousands of dollars.

So that's how it goes here in America. Gee Mitt! Thanks for the advice!

But like I said, with effect January 1st, 2014, a lot of that will change.


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Fri 16 Nov 12 #15 
jmaxg
Contributor

I could have said "Going to an Emergency for free health care in the United States of America" is a lie.

But I felt it needed a bigger explanation than that.


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Fri 16 Nov 12 #16 
southshoregirl

jmaxg, I am sorry to say this so bluntly, but the Obama Health care act is a big crock of shit and it isn't going to help anyone. It is a heavy governmental boot crushing the throat of free enterprise in America. It will bring no prosperity to the borderline income people and will not lift anyone out of poverty. It will not squash the very rich, it will be a tickle on their balls. It will hurt the middle class and hurt us in a big way and will discourage people of moderate means from starting or expanding businesses. People are already laying off workers and our economy is going to tank rather soon. THOSE are the TRUE FACTS! It is a bureaucratic nightmare and it is bad for most Americans. It is a hateful Communist idea and it sucks. I can't wait to see how we can crawl out from underneath it. People are NOT going to put up with it. It is doomed before it is in full force. Doctors all over the country are making plans to leave their professions and pursue other careers. No, jmaxg, it is not a good thing in America. It is a very, very bad thing. It is probably going to destroy our Republic.


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Fri 16 Nov 12 #17 
southshoregirl

Also, there are exemptions. THAT is a fact.


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Sun 18 Nov 12 #18 
jmaxg
Contributor

SSG, here's a tip.....you are not winning any friends.

Most of the people you are talking to live under a system of government overseen, health care provision.

In these countries, regarded as some of the best examples of western democracy, they live happily within a system of government provided care and subsidised drug pricing WITH the option of upping their health coverage IF they earn enough money to pay for it! Private health care still exists in each and every one of those countries.

The question from all those countries is "What the hell is America's problem and why don't they get with the program?"

The answer to that is corporations. They are simply unwilling to compromise in any way and in any form because they think their shareholders will take a hit. They own the drugs and they own the hospitals and there is simply no way they will give that grip up.

In a way, the Affordable Care Act said the same back to corporations. Using the $14,000 and under a year group, the US Federal Government has said "You better be right! Your care had better be the best care anyware. Because if it isn't? You are screwed!" In truth, the $14,000 a year and under group are being used to see if the much vaunted US Health Care system is as good as all the lobby groups say it is.

I don't like it personally as a step. But ultimately it will force a situation on these private hospitals and the private drugs......either put up or shut the hell up.

In any case, poor people will now be in wards right up against, cheek by jowl, Mr. or Mrs. $90,000 a year........being treated for the same life threatening conditions.

That's the reason I started this forum. That is the right thing. It's right, proper and moral. And, forced or not, America is finally doing it.


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Sun 18 Nov 12 #19 
Ajax
Contributor

Jmaxg is right.

Also now in Australia we are trialling a health scheme for the disabled. Government funded, for therapeutic services. Noice.


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Sun 18 Nov 12 #20 
kevg
The Grumpinator

As a permanently disabled (mentally and physically) person I am in favour of that.

Not actually but don't tell the health service, I'm afraid strokes and heart problems mean I can't be arsed going to work anymore.


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Sun 18 Nov 12 #21 
jmaxg
Contributor

*candidate jmaxg scribbles wildly........

"...I can't be arsed going to work anymore."

This is campaign gold!

*campaign manager whispers in my ear....

But he SAID he was disabled MENTALLY and physically!

*whisper, whisper....

Ok, whoever came up with these rules never actually ran for office. I'd just like to point that out.

*whisper, whisper.....

Ok, ok....no dopey, no quarmby, I get it.


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Sun 18 Nov 12 #22 
jmaxg
Contributor

If you could Ajax, can you tell us about this program?


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Sun 18 Nov 12 #23 
Ajax
Contributor

Perhaps here will give you an overview. It is called NDIS, National Disability Insurance Scheme.

It is good news for my little one, who has been able to have 5 appointments under Medicare this year, but in reality requires constant therapy. Not for illness, but to be able to speak, walk, etc.

Now, I've always been right leaning, but I can't see that a good government could not provide citizens with health care, education and a good police force. Before anything else.


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Sun 18 Nov 12 #24 
southshoregirl

jmaxg, you may not know it but I have been totally disabled since 2001. Why? Because I cannot lift anything heavier than 15 lbs and cannot walk on the beach or carry in my own groceries or do my own garden or vacuum my rugs or any number of things. I paid into disabilty through social security when I worked. I am not taking from others. I am using what I had contributed. I am facing a third surgery in the near future.

Look, I WANT peope to have health care, every single person, and I want it to be superlative care but I do not think the law that has been passed is going to do the job. I think it is unrealistic and to be perfectly honest, privately run corporations are always run better than government owned ones. Perhap if the ACA were split up and alllowed to be run by private groups of doctors it would work. I just think the administration of such giant legislation will become a nightmare.

It is the people who run this new show who will decide are a big concern to me. That is the main concern .


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Sun 18 Nov 12 #25 
jackson
Contributor

well just to prove a point i was at the dr's office yesterday & asked for viagra. he said no problem, but with the diabetes, ibs,degenerative back disease, anemia, high blood pressure, etc. etc. , you might wanta be careful. when i got to the pharmacy they reiterated the dangers & told me that would be $176.52. no free viagra or other pecker enhancing medications available through medicaid here. as a matter of fact they don't even allow you to see a podiatrist, which should be automatic as it is common knowledge that if you have diabetes, foot problems are a dangerous problem.


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Sun 18 Nov 12 #26 
southshoregirl

jackson, it is outrageous that you are denied podiatric care. It is so important for a diabetic. Were you even allowed it? I am not surprised about the Viagra. Were you always denied foot care? Sorry about your pecker.


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Sun 18 Nov 12 #27 
southshoregirl

jmaxg, not for nothing but we do have a terrific medical network of fine hospitals and practicioners in the US and there is not an endless wait to see specialists here. I don't know why you constantly degrade the very country into which you seek citizenship. Do you really want to be here? What, besides your lovely wife, is your motivation for staying here if you find so much wrong here? And, by the way, I am not out to "make friends" I am merely stating things as they are. I have no ill will toward anyone and when we talk on here there should be no animosity.


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Sun 18 Nov 12 #28 
jackson
Contributor

was only trying to make sure with the viagra. seems strange about the podiatrist, as it is well known what a problem feet can be for diabetics. i'm guessin only if a toe or something is threatened can you go in for footcare. it seems like they might be paying more in the long run for refusing to cover podiatry. the reason they give is that some podiatrists are lacking in training & are sorta chiropractors of the foot. others are very well trained board certified Dr's of the foot. in that case it seems they'd weed out the ones they consider bad, but no. yes a sad story about little johnson, sniff, but life goes on.


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Mon 19 Nov 12 #29 
southshoregirl

My husband has type 2 diabetes and has to have his toenails cut specially, in a straight line every other month and checked for other problems. It is a well known fact that diabetic feet require special care and observation to avoid dangerous infection which can be unnoticed because of neuropathy. Sorry about johnson, there. Maybe you could find a female podiatrist with a kind heart?


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Mon 19 Nov 12 #30 
jackson
Contributor

wouldn't necessarily have to be a podiatrist.


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Mon 19 Nov 12 #31 
southshoregirl

For your feet or for johnson? hehehehe


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Mon 19 Nov 12 #32 
Ajax
Contributor

aiyaaaa.


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Mon 19 Nov 12 #33 
sally906
Contributor

Have visions of johnstons hairy hobbit feet up on a stool - toes wiggling in happy anticipation for their monthly trim! :)


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Mon 19 Nov 12 #34 
southshoregirl

I really didn't have visions of that, sally. I think I would rather jackson just receive proper care for his feet. Yes, I share Ajax' succint feelings.


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Mon 19 Nov 12 #35 
jackson
Contributor

well, since mr johnson can't pay attention in class, i'd certainly settle for a podiatrist. need to walk to lose some weight. was up to 3 or 4 miles a day, which would eventually work out, but always get derailed by foot problems, (corns, recurring pain from toes broken in the past, etc.). swam for awhile, but screwed up my shoulder that was operated on a few years back. considering taking up thumb twiddling, but bone spurs & arthritis may preclude that as well;)


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Wed 21 Nov 12 #36 
jmaxg
Contributor

Reference post#27....

(as if I'm not gonna answer this one)

SSG, I'll thank you to not forecast my leanings towards citizenship. That is my call, not yours.

Quite frankly, I have been thinking of late why I should make any effort towards that.

Your are quite right in stating that the United States can claim superlative medical care. The best equipment, the best operators, world class specialists, and great doctors. As long as you can pay for it, you get it.

And that's the point, isn't it? As long as you can pay for it? Right?

The Affordable Care Act says that with effect January 1st 2014, people that can't afford it will be getting the benefit of your "terrific medical network".

Now, I am an asthmatic and the complexity of the Affordable Care Act says that I will remain untreated as I have now been for the last year.

All I can do is compare. In Australia for example, I pay $20 to $30 (off the street) to see a doctor (because of national health care subsidation) and get a prescription. Then I pay $5 (because of national health care subsidation) for an inhaler.

Here? $100 or above to see a doctor to get your script. The inhaler costs $75. If you go to a common pharmacy like CVS or Rite Aide and use what they call the "Nurse Practitioner Program", it may cost you more.

$175 or more.......the difference between feeding a family in a given week, or not.

You wanna tell me it's the best system in the world SSG? Go right ahead.

But the fact is, it isn't.

But my original point was, it's not about me. It's about them.....those that can't afford anything.

America has put it's hand up. It's a start.


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Wed 21 Nov 12 #37 
Ajax
Contributor

Lordy me. You can get a Ventolin inhaler for $10 OTC. I'll post you one.


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Wed 21 Nov 12 #38 
jmaxg
Contributor

Please do! Most nights though, it's not a big deal.


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Wed 21 Nov 12 #39 
soupy
Member

WELL i HAVE INSURANCE BUT IT STILL COST ME 40-50$ every time I have to get my heart meds filled and I work in a hospital and my MD sees me there. GO FIGURE!


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Thu 22 Nov 12 #40 
southshoregirl

Wait and see how much the new ACA costs each of you in real overall terms before you jump for joy. Things are seldom what they seem and you will still have expenses. But if you like it, good. That is your right. I am not happy with any act which controls one sixth of our economy.


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Sat 24 Nov 12 #41 
jmaxg
Contributor

Be bitter if you like, but like I said, those of us that are not you or me, and a poor and struggling, can now rock in and say "Gimme!".

Well, as at January 1st, 2014 in a cooperating state that is.


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #42 
southshoregirl

I am not bitter, jmax. I am pragmatic. The government is bloated and it is less efficient than a private company at administrating these affairs.

The poor and unisured always had access to health care through emergency rooms since it has always been illegal to deny care.

The law will be in full force by 2014 but it is only scheduled to last for a limited time. I believe only for four years. Is that correct?

Why should everyone say "Gimme"? Does that mean we can also walk into a car dealership and have a dime in our pockets and say "Gimme"? That is surely not just.

I will see what happens with this ACA and if it does any good.


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #43 
southshoregirl

Ajax is right. You can by meds online. Look them up. You might be surprised at what you can get.


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #44 
jmaxg
Contributor

I'd just like to point out one more time so it's clear in everyone's heads....

"The poor and unisured always had access to health care through emergency rooms since it has always been illegal to deny care."

Yes, but in other countries with central health care, you aren't BILLED FOR AN EMERGENCY VISIT!!!

I have never said that any American hospital will refuse an emergency patient. The point I am trying to make is that, in many occasions, you have just mortgaged your house because your emergency bill will dwarf your bank account. That's IF you have given them your true details.

They are, the hospital that has the emergency ward, REQUIRED to bill you.....and they will.

So let us stop all this "free health care though emergency" stuff. It just isn't true.


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #45 
southshoregirl

Yes, they will bill you but you can pay them $5.00 per month if you have to, jmax. Isn't that better than just getting a handout? Nothing in life is truly free but hospitals are extremely lenient about working out repayment when needed and they do so at a very low or no iterest rate. Debts to hospitals are also NOT counted against you when trying to buy a home or in applications for other credit. jmax, it is better for people to have some feeling of accomplishment in life, not to be a bunch of bums looking for freebies. Truly needy used to be cared for by the local, then state and finally the tippy top final few were helped by the federal government. It is all backwards now.

We will just wait to see how it works. You do realize that you will be paying for the ACA through many unseen channels? It is not free at all.


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #46 
jmaxg
Contributor

So let's deal with this.....how does all this "emergency room in the United States" stuff work?

You see, it works like this......you have two ways to come into a hospital Emergency Room, either conscious and in duress or simply unconscious.

Now, if unconscious, you will be treated and, more importantly, stabilised. But after that point, if they still don't know who you are, you will be disposed of. IF the state you are in has something like a public hospital, you will be delivered there......most likely by taxi as it's cheaper than an ambulance. If the state doesn't have anything like a public hospital, the "patient" will be delivered ANYWHERE, as long as it isn't there. Video record exists of patients being delivered to bus stations and train stations, some still apparently less than fully conscious.

If conscious, the system at large screams at you to be fraudulent. If you can manage to not give your correct details, then you will be treated. Since you are conscious, the whole process goes deeper and perhaps more satisfactory. But when you leave, whatever was done to you will be borne by the state......and as a result of illegality.

If you have to visit a hospital Emergency Room and give your true details? You will be treated but.... Well, let's just say a letter soon will make your hair turn white. It's called a "bill".

This is not a "health system". This is just a bunch of shit that happens.


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #47 
southshoregirl

Just curious, jmax. I have NOT read the ACA. Have you? BTW, you very hasty reply to my previous post is so preposterous and dumb I think you should "unshame" yourself for having written such crap by deleting it. Good night!


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #48 
jmaxg
Contributor

Not changing a word.

Good night.

:-)


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #49 
Ajax
Contributor

Just think. Free mental health care might cut down on people shooting up schools. If you can't look after your weakest members then you fail as a society.


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #50 
jmaxg
Contributor

"But for the least of my brothers...."

I am positive someone said that once!


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #51 
southshoregirl

Ajax, you also fall apart whe you ignore the needs of the strongest members of society.........it has to be equitable, don't you think?


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #52 
kevg
The Grumpinator

I'm on Ajax side with this. Surely a good sign of civilisation is helping others more unfortunate than yourself. helping the strongest of society seems rather pointless doesn't it. Helping them to do what exactly ??


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #53 
southshoregirl

That is terrible, jackson. I am sorry it happened, and have they stopped bothering you by now?


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Tue 27 Nov 12 #54 
jackson
Contributor

pretty much


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Wed 28 Nov 12 #55 
southshoregirl

Good. I hope you stay pretty healthy. Try hard. I mean it. It is always better but I know what you are up against. It;'s hard.


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Wed 28 Nov 12 #56 
Ajax
Contributor

Don't think for a minute that Australia is doing a good job. Our mental health care is appalling, but it looks like there is going to be a big shakeup.


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Wed 28 Nov 12 #57 
southshoregirl

I am removing myself from this discussion because it is causing too much friction.


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Thu 29 Nov 12 #58 
jmaxg
Contributor

"Ajax, you also fall apart whe you ignore the needs of the strongest members of society.........it has to be equitable, don't you think? "

Yes.....let's all cry over the people that actually can afford to pay for stuff.

Like Fox News Bill O'Reilly said after the last election........"Ok, everybody want's stuff. They just want things."

This is pretty funny from the guy who owns "stuff" and "things" and can afford any medical treatment he likes.

As far as I am concerned, the argument doesn't get any more simple.....especially based on O'Reilly's comment.

Some people may not have as much "stuff" or "things" that you do Bill. But they still have a right to life as much as you do.


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Sun 9 Dec 12 #59 
southshoregirl

WOW! You watch Bill O'Reilly? I can't stand that guy. Truly! I think he is a horse's ass. He can own the world and I would think the same. Yes, people have just as much desire and DESERVE good medical care as people like Odumbo, but I just think the ACA is the wrong way to go. It is a monkey puzzle and it has too much governmental involvment. Yes, everyone want to live and have a good quality of life but I will tell you that having money does not equate good hell. If anything it might contribute to poor health by allowing the consumption of extra rich foods and excessive alcohol. They might have access to a speedier car and get into an accident. See, nothing is cut and dry. I am just pointing out that wealth does automatically promise good health or happiness or anything


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Mon 10 Dec 12 #60 
jmaxg
Contributor

You would dare to offset the argument of the Bible, the New Testament, and of Jesus Christ himself?

Now THAT's brave! And I'm a non-believer in god!

There you have it folks.......the privileged stating their philosophy.

Look, I have no way of alleviating this apart from.....

When you see poor people getting treated medically, look the other way.

You are supposed to be really good at that anyway.


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Wed 12 Dec 12 #61 
southshoregirl

my post deleted. no response was deserved.


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